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April 11, 2022

688. Sales Jamming with international author "Mr. Adversity," Patrick Tinney.

688. Sales Jamming with international author "Mr. Adversity," Patrick Tinney.

Today my friend and international author stopped by The Sales Life for a little sales jam. Three books in one episode. 


In this episode, you will learn: 


3:48: Why do I call him Mr. Adversity. 

9:45: Why being in an underdog position is a good thing. 

21:00 Why stress is necessary for your life and how you can manipulate it to your advantage. 

28:58 “Practice being under-whelmed.”

35:48 “Mentally pedal backward.”

44:58 Play strong even with a weak hand. 

54:59 The power of the spark. The day Patrick called me when I was at my lowest. 


Patrick is the master of weaving a story to make a point. Enjoy today’s conversation with a sales legend. Say hello to him on LinkedIn and grab his books here. 

Watch this episode on
YouTube. 


The greatest sale you will ever make is to sell you on you. You're more than enough. Never settle. Keep Selling. 

Transcript

today on the sales life podcast. you know what? I've been in some situations at times, and there's no way out there is no win, but it doesn't mean that you can't attempt to win. All right. When everybody thinks you're your weakest, that's when they will try and take advantage. Yeah. But when you look strong, when you're weak, that's when they look at you and they go, wow, how the hell does he, or she do that? today, my friend and international. Best-selling author Patrick tinny stomps by the sales life. A little bit of sales jam today, man, we're going to cover three books in one episode, perpetual hunger, the bonus round and unlocking yes. In this episode, you'll learn why I call Patrick tinny. Mr. Adversity. Also, why being in an underdog position is a good. How stress is necessary in your life and how you can manipulate it to your advantage. Practicing being underwhelmed, mentally pedaling backwards, love this one, play strong, even with a weak hand. My favorite chapter and also the power of the spark. The day back in 2018, when Patrick called me and I was at my lowest, Patrick is the master of weaving a story to bring home a point. Enjoy today's conversation with a sales legend, just a beautiful person. And I'm so grateful that we finally got a chance to sit down for a long conversation, connect to them on LinkedIn even if you're not in sales, remember selling is a life skill, grab a copy of his books and learn how you can apply those to every area of your life. With that let's rock on with today's episode. Patrick tinny say hello to the TSL nation boo-yah saints. And those of you who are watching on the video, man, you got to check them out in his, uh, in his Florida leave. Man. He's got the, he's got the saints colors on to, I got to tell ya, I woke up this morning and I was thinking to myself, Um, what about some gumbo for breakfast? I mean, that's the kind of stuff that gets you going on a Friday. What about cold calls? Who wants cold calls? I want gumball calls, red hot triple Chile. Absolutely. And, and the good thing about a gumbo Patrick is is, is anything goes, man, you can take it out of the fridge, whatever you want, man. Put it in the pot, boil it up. And uh, and especially when it's been marinating overnight, and then you pull it out of the refrigerator and eat it for breakfast. The next morning is nothing like it, man. I tell you, man, I tuck it behind my ears. What an honor to be on your show. How many episodes have you. Uh, let's see, 685 episodes. Holy smokes. I haven't been on that many dates in my life. Uh, well this has been a long time coming man. And, uh, and I'm so grateful. I've done episodes solo episodes, um, before referencing your books. And I'm glad that we can get it through, uh, through your voice today. And folks, let me tell you something. Patrick Tenney has the chops. He has the chops to be here. I call him Mr. Adversity because, uh, literally he was born into adversity he was born into bankruptcy. He lost his father at age nine. He had to become the man of the house. Took every job he possibly could to help support his mom lived in a house with no plumbing, ate out of cans. Uh, got into sales owned, one suit yet did everything he could to look fresh every single day and had no car. So he had to pound the pavement until he wore holes through his shoes. That's how hard he actually worked. And Patrick, you know, some people would use one chapter of your story as an excuse to give up yet. You used it as a reason to succeed, you know, all, is it about you and adversity, man? You know, I, you know, I it's really strange, you know, after my dad died and, um, I didn't get to say goodbye to him. So, and we were so poor. We used to exchange, looks at Christmas, um, stop it, grow up, you know, but we were, we ha we took in all kinds of people so that we could afford our rent. And what I don't tell most people is that for the first 18 years of my life, I only had my own room for two years. The other times I slept in the dining room or most likely on the floor. Because we had to keep taking people in to pay for the rent so that we could eat. And then when my dad died, we had to move out of the apartment we were in. Cause we couldn't afford it moved to a smaller apartment. And, and you know, basically when I was a little kid, my mother said to me, you know, I was like nine. She pulled me aside and she said, son, um, and I live in, or I grew up in Hamilton, which is the equivalent to Allentown or, you know, um, your favorite steel town in the United States. And, um, uh, you know, she just said, you know, son, I think I can get you to grade 10. And if I can get you to grade 10, then you'll be able to go work for Stelco or which is our steel company or Dofasco and you'll go and you'll, you'll, you know, you'll start your life at age 16. So I started, I just said, you know, in my dad died and I think it was November. I tried to forget because my stepfather died within 24 hours of my natural father's anniversary of. Wow. Furthermore, I, I had, uh, uh, so I went out west to Edmonton, slept on the floor. I would wake up every day and we didn't have any money. So my roommate and his, uh, he had, uh, uh, you know, uh, Malibu with no floorboards, which is how I learned how to drive driving across Canada. He would say, don't, don't look down though. So we drove across Canada. That's how we learned how to drive. And, um, here's the funny story. So if you know where green bay is on the other side of lake superior is, um, you know, it's, uh, thunder bay. And so we were just heading for thunder bay and over the top of superior, you can imagine the size of the waves that come in. They're like 20, 20 feet tall. I've been right up there in front of them. And, um, so anyway, we ended up camping in a campground called rabbit blanket park. You can look it up, great fishing there, by the way. And so anyway, he, Steve says to me, he says, uh, you're from Hamilton, right? Yeah. He says, you do a lot of camping. I says, no, we don't camp and Hamilton. It's like, you know, Samantha, what are you going to camp on summit? And, uh, so anyway, he says, all right. So he says, we go camp. And he says, you take up as many clothes as you can. Because the, you know, he says that the sleeping bag is what keeps you warm. I said a tie or a north end Hamilton guy. He puts as many calls on as he can. And he climbs inside that puts sleeping bag. Well, when we went to bed, we'd eaten sardines and beans and drank a bunch of beer and all the rest of this stuff. And we fell asleep middle of the night. It snowed six inches in June. Now, when I woke up, I was staring down at the bottom of that tent and there was a man down there shaking so hard. He looked, he looked like a German shepherd trying to pass a peach stone. You know, we got a west, you know, the people that hired us at a college didn't even meet us in Edmonton. They just didn't show up to work on Monday. We had nowhere to stay. So we ended up, luckily Steve's parents were out there. Um, uh, his father was a second world war vet, uh, a special, um, a special forces guy, huge man. And he said, guys, he says, come on. He says that. He says, don't tell anybody in the building who you are just come in late at night. He says, climbing your sleeping bags, sleeping at the bottom of the floor. And he couldn't find her an apartment. We found an apartment, but it was all the money that we made. So we couldn't afford to put any furniture. We had, uh, a wooden ironing board and two beanbag chairs and a radio. That was all of our furniture for the whole, well, for the whole apartment. There's two stories. So every morning I wake up, didn't have coffee. Couldn't afford that. Drive to the office, go downstairs by the biggest plate of French fries you've ever seen in your life, get them to cover it with gravy, get myself a big diet Coke or diet Pepsi. I will eat all of it. And that would be my food for the day. I'd walk for the entire day, no lunch. And you know, it's, it's interesting how you recycle the adversity. So, and that's why, you know, one of the five core skills TSL nation that I talk about is creativity. And so what Patrick has learned to do albeit the hard way, because there are different inclines that you have in life and you got to get creative. You can sit there and bitch about what you don't have, or you can say, this is what I've, this is what I got to work with. And so you rock out from there and you know, there are times. Um, I know Patrick that, you know, just, just hearing what you're talking about and about being the underdog man, like there's, you have found yourself probably in countless times in, in being the underdog. And in chapter seven, I love that you referenced about the underdog position, um, in chapter seven of the bonus round. And you say that, and you write that underdogs make, fearless competitors. Totally. So let me ask you this. How is, how is selling in an underdog position? Because many people would look at the underdog and be like, I'm outmatched, I'm outgunned. I don't have the resources. How can, when you find yourself in an underdog position, how can that be a catalyst for dealmaking you salivate? You're looking at the other guy's bull and you say, he's eating out of my bowl. He sitting in my chair, it's a. I remember I was in Calgary and there was a new shopping center opening up. They're not the same story you're talking about, but this will resonate. This is 1980. And, uh, I was up against the Calgary Herald, who I eventually represented for the next 22 years of my life. After I got back to the Toronto star and I worked for the Toronto, uh, Toronto star, which is Canada's 13th, largest newspaper, not Canada's north America's quite frankly, 850,000 circulation on a Saturday, around $20,000 a page. When I was there on Saturdays, they went up much more after that. But, um, when I was working for the Calgary sun, um, it's a tabloid and you know, your typical tablet in the United States only we had a page three girl. We had the, we had the sunshine boy at the back and the shopping center was opening up. So we were like, we were a 64 page newspaper. I mean, it was, it was really like, okay, well, we. That was it. Right? So, uh, versus the big broad sheet where you spend hours thinking about all of the important things of the world, we weren't doing that we were just out having fun. And, um, so I thought, you know what? I don't have a team. I have a team of me. There's no support team. There was a creative department, it two guys in there that didn't like each other. So they're always duking it out in the creative department. And, uh, so I had to go in and sort of say, listen, there's this mall opening up. It's a big one. And I want to do something, you know, and I just need your support. I need you to know you're with me. And they go, yeah, man. You know, like if you can bring it, we can do it. So I called up my management and I said, uh, my name is Patrick tinny and I represent the second largest newspaper in camp. I said, can I have a complete list of all the people that are going to be moving into the mall because you just don't want support from half of the market. You want support from all of the market. And I represent the other part, even if it's only this wide. And, uh, so anyway, they gave me the whole list with all the names, all the contacts, everybody, and I got on the phone and I was going 24 hours a day, 24 hours a day, 24 hours a day, 24 hours a day. And I built a 44 page section 90% advertising. My section was two thirds, the size of the newspaper. And that's on top of all the other advertising I soul in those days. You know, if you, if, if you had the back page of the newspaper, you were the big dog inside, you know, the ad department. I had three back pages a week, plus I would have, you know, other positions in the newspaper, which I had to sell beyond that. So anyway, the section got. I got called in by the director at the time. And he said, pat, how was your month? I said, well, you know, he says, yeah, I know. He says, you're going to have a nice commission check. I said, yeah, I know. I said, how big after you've done all the calculations, he says, we owe you $5,000 for the month's work. 1980. That was enough to buy a car. I produced what the other newspaper would have had a whole team producing. So let me ask you this. Obviously we find ourselves in an underdog positions. Do you ever purposefully put yourself in an underdog position? Not called kind of the Tom Brady effect where Tom Brady, even though he is, one of the best players ever, but he, he actually puts himself in the hole. He puts himself with his back against the wall. And do you find that you, you put yourself there at times you put yourself in an underdog position to kind of make it happen? Yeah. You know, it's uh, to me it's visualization. Um, you know, a Tom Brady I've, I've heard that, uh, on his last super bowl win. Um, well, before the team got there on the team bus, he arrived early and he walked out on the field. There was nobody there yet. He just wanted to feel the stadium. He just walked out and you just want to feel the stadium. And, um, for me, I remember one of my first, uh, Well, we produced a, a section for the Commonwealth games, um, in Edmonton at, uh, you know, weekly newspaper that nobody had ever heard of or cared about. And the mall manager came down and he was in shock. He says, he's the guys. He said, do you realize what you've done? We said, no, we're just doing our jobs. He says, I'm going to submit this to the shopping center association across north America. He says, he said, this is, this is really good. I mean, the Commonwealth games are one step down from the Pan-Am games and know the Olympics. So, you know, it started early for me. And I'm like, I, I think I mentioned in one of my earlier books, um, I got kicked out of the first college I was in. Thank God guy was boring. And, uh, but the guy who was. Uh, the support professor went to a place called Oakville, which is just west of Toronto. I was in Hamilton at the time and he opened up a program called retail advertising. And I went retail that's me. So anyway, I was busted up because, you know, you throw thrown on a college. It's not fun. Right. But it was a good thing because what it did is it sharpen me up. It just said, you know what, pat, if you don't focus, you're going nowhere. If you don't focus all, you're going to be as what you are right now. So anyway, um, I got together with a couple of people and we rode back and forth to college and they were doing things in the car that I would call extra curricular in those days. In other words, they had to get tuned up to go to class and I'm sitting there and I'm going, you know what guys? It was like, it was a guy in a girl. I said, I can't do this. This means too much to me. And he looks at me and he says, well, you know what? You can't do it without us. I said, what'd you do. He said you can't get from Hamilton to Oakville everyday. It's 20 miles. One way is you don't have any money. I said, just watch me.

So I wake up at 6:

00 AM, eat all the food. I could some days with just bus fare to get downtown, get one transfer out to the, the queen Elizabeth highway. And I hitchhiked to school for two years in a row through the winter, never missed a day. Wow. I graduated one grade short of the Dean's honor list. Years later years later, I went back and I became a part of the, um, the advisory committee for the advertising program at Sheridan college. And there are these like 18, 19 professors around me that the program had grown quite a bit. And, um, one guy sitting at the end of the table and he says, uh, something bugging me about your name. I said, Patrick, he said, no. He said tinny. I said, I dunno. I said, he said, when did you graduate? I said, it was the second. Um, after the course was founded and he goes, that's a long time ago because I'd be around 50 then. Right. And he said, uh, I don't know something bugging me. I said, well, I'm the guy that hitchhiked back and forth to school. He goes, Jesus, we've heard about you. You're the hitchhiker. You're that guy. There were days when I went to school without money. I can remember. I got caught one day by the, um, chairman of the applied arts department. I was in a reading room. Well, we always went up to the cafeteria. We all ate together. Cause it was, you know, you were just your little, you know, your group of classmates. And he pulls me aside. His name is Jeff Jarvis. And he says, pat, what are you doing? I said, I'm getting ready for this afternoon. He said, uh, did you just run and eat lunch really fast? I said, I'm not really hungry. Then I said, you know, at a good breakfast that I said, I'm just preparing. And he said, that's not good enough. He says, this is your one shot. You know, it here's 10 by. So I can't take your money. He said, you're going to pay me back. He said, go eat. He said, listen to me. If you don't work as hard as you can here, and now you'll never get another chance. Don't blow it. You need all of your brain cells for this afternoon. So I went and I ate as much as I could came back borrowed money. The next day I came back into his office with the 10 bucks I hitchhiked back in again. And I said, here's your $10 Jeff? And he said, can't take it. And I went on, I knew this was going to happen. I said, you can't do this to me. You can't play those head games with me. He said, no, you're gonna pay me back. And I said, really? He said, yeah, you're gonna pay me back. He says, every time you see somebody in the kind of shape you in, you're going to dig into your pockets and you're going to pull a 10 bucks. So anyway, years later he got Alzheimer's. Nobody went to visit him. And he was only about five minutes away from the college. He used to spend 25 years there. I called the alumni committee. They wouldn't didn't want anything to know about him. So his family found out that I'd been visiting him and he was in LA. Huge man, like six foot five big dude. And you can imagine trying to control somebody who has Alzheimer's. Anyway, I was leaving them all my tip cards, my business cards, articles and stuff like that. And I got a call one day and he says, is this Patrick tinny? I said, yeah, he says, this is David Jarvis. I said, really? He said, and we know what you've been doing. And I said, what is that? He said, you're the only one I said, I'm the only one what he said, visiting our dad. He said, he's really sick. He said, would you consider doing the Memorial? And that's what I told the story. So I'm standing up in front of St. Peter's Anglican church. The church is just fall. And I tell the story about the 10 bucks and I get to the understory and I'm looking on our basis. Do you realize what that $10 cost me? I'm down thousands. The whole place went crazy, but you know what I realized standing up there, my brother was my brother-in-law was a pastor and I told him it's over, over our Thanksgiving dinner one day I said, Don, I said, I'm thinking about coming into the family business because his father was a pastor. And he says, you, you get the family business. I said, yeah, you know, I said, you know, I said, I did this eulogy a couple of months ago and I realized something. He said, what you realize? Well, I was standing up there at the pulpit and I'm staring down hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. And I said, I had an epiphany. He goes, sure, pat, you had an official. What was your epiphany? I said, you can sell a lot of stuff up there. God, there was this emotion of buns that came in. The whole family was thrown across the room, wherever the salesman that's for sure. No matter what, I could have moved a lot of Bibles up there. Absolutely. Let's talk a little, a little bit about stress and how you can, um, I don't believe in that life can, I don't believe in stress free. I do believe in less stress. I think stress is a necessary. To success. Yeah. Um, you know, adversity can, you know, and the stress that you face when you face it, head on, um, it can push you down, but if you tilt it ever so slightly, it will actually cause you to take flight. And, um, in chapter 22 of unlocking, yes. Do you talk, um, and you referenced to some different ways that you can actually manipulate the stress and use it to your advantage to actually conserve your energy. So I'll, uh, I'll, I'll pull up, each are a few of them and then, uh, I'll tee you up and let you, uh, take a black on each one of them. So the first one that you talk about as far as, um, using stress to are having less stress is to stay present. When you write that the, that the precious present is it's where all the action is. So Patrick, if, if people aren't in the. Where are they actually playing? Uh, if you're in negotiation, you're, you're, uh, frightened as hell in the future. And if you are getting your ass handed to you in a negotiation, you're stuck in the past. Hmm. Here we go. Again. I'm coming in second. And you know, my way of thinking about it is prepare like nobody's ever prepared. So I would do my, a large deal for me with one signature was $13 million, one signature. Long story short is, um, to prepare for this. I, I was representing 125 newspapers simultaneously, literally every major daily in Canada with the exception to, and, um, so what I would do, um, these negotiations would sometimes take four to six months to finish. And so for that period of time, I would start the workup by the way, the negotiation begins before anybody says meeting 'cause what happens is people get together for cocktails and they'll say, marsh, what's happening in your company right now? What are the hot buttons? You know, who's in, who's out. Where do you see things going? Any labor disruptions, what new products are you launching? Well, that's exactly what I mean. I would just do it an hour and golf dates and stuff like that with the same customer. And then once you start to, you know, you, you, you arrive at what your company needs, and then you realize what they're going to ask for. And you're gonna end up with a gap and you have to prepare for the gap. So what I would use all my costs modeling. So when you ask for rate increases, you have to figure that you know exactly what they will accept. Well, they always say zero, but they always say zero because they have to anchor deeply. So if they say zero, you can't be much above zero, unless you come up with an amazing business case. So I was always working on the business cases. So five times a night, I would leave myself voicemails to the point where I couldn't even understand who the hell I was talking to. When I go into work, next, they go, it's four 30. Don't forget to put this in the presentation. And anyway, what I would do is I would compress all my notes in near the end. After we got down to the, you know, the small stuff we agreed on. Now we're into the big three. The big three are money tight. And new initiatives, right? In other words, how do I deliver so much huge value that when he takes this $13 million contract inside his company with the rate increases that I was going to ask for and wouldn't back away from, how could he sell it internally? The way he sold it internally was with the incentive plans that I backloaded into either a quarter or a year long proposal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the more present are the more prepared you are, then the more present you can be. And so that way you can make the necessary adjustments as needed. Do you do think about how many times you're in the showroom and somebody comes in and they know as much about your product as you do. You have to unscript you have to say to them, well, clearly you've done your homework. Clearly you've done your homework and then you turn to the guy's wife and you say what's important to you because you look like you got a baby bump. He wants this. But you're the one delivering this beautiful bundle of joy, just hopefully she's pregnant. Yeah. I've had that said to me, in that case, she's not overweight. She's fluffy anyway. So what you do is you compress your mind into the present so that you know, everything you can know. And then what you do is you focus entirely on the person marsh. And all you're doing is you're looking at their body language. And as you talk to them and ask them about things that are important to them, their eyes will either light up. They'll look away. If they turn one foot away from you. That's not a good thing. Yeah. If they stand directly in front of you, it's a good thing. If their eyes drop, it's not a good. If their eyes light up, if they become more animated, it's a good thing. If they're not animated, if they cross their arms like that, who's doing that right now. If they cross their arms like that, it's like, just say, you know, you look a little, how can I help you feel happier? Do you need a tea? How'd you like some tea? Right? Can I get some nice warm tea in the bag? You like a cup, a color just when we sit around and talk about the thing you're not going to buy. Yeah. I heard that recently and I went, oh God, that's brilliant. And it was the guy that was selling mattresses and people would walk in buy mattresses and he'd say, come on in folks. He said, I haven't, uh, you know, you guys said, I've met you before. Can I show you something? I know you're never gonna be. No think about that in a car, a dealership. So, you know, somebody comes into your car dealership and you've got the new it car. The one that nobody can afford, just say, come on to the back. I just want to open the door and late slide in on the leather. Yeah. Now I know you can't afford this. You're never going to buy it when you know what you've done to them. You've just said to them aspirationally, try and they'll fight for it. They will. Same thing with the mattress, the present. If you can, if you can block your mind out, if you know everything you can know about what you can know in that moment, then it's not about the backup plan. It's about feeling them without touching them. Yeah. Sometimes you have to touch them. You know what you do sometimes on a deal. Stay the hell away from your side of the desk. Sit beside them. Yeah. I've done that before, where there's there's times where in oftentimes I'll sit either beside, um, my customer or there are times too where maybe I had to leave the office and come back in. And what I'll actually do is I'll kneel down beside them. Um, and then show them because I'm a big guy. I'm six, three. So I am, what I'll do is I'll come in and I'll kneel beside them. And so it's a psychological positioning that I'll do that way. It helps. And I'm sitting on I'm kneeling down right beside them. So it's not adversarial. Um, it's our confrontational, I should say then what it is is it's more of a collaboration and it's something I don't have to say at all. It's just something that the customers, they can feel that. And then, and then, you know, feel like that you're a part of it. Uh, also what is, what is practice being underwhelmed, um, when it comes to reducing stress. Yeah. So, you know, if you know, you're going to be in a big mental rush situation, you know, you, you've got, uh, I do a couple of things. One is that I tighten all the muscles in my body on purpose from my toes, right up into my face. I can even scrunch my face if I want. And then I release it. It's like, take your fist like that. As hard as you can from for like 15 seconds and release it now, visualize doing that with your stomach, your chest, because we're stressed comes first as in your chest. And then it goes to your face. Then it goes to your. If it ends up in your lower bowel, your you've got really big problems. You take it skews me. Um, so what I would do is I would, I would get myself there and the next thing I would do is I would do like mini meditations. So I would arrive early in my customer's boardrooms, including things like Walmart. I sold the Walmart head offices in Canada, and I would close my eyes after I read my crib notes. And I would just visualize the happiest place I've ever been in my life, which is usually fishing. And I would just allow myself to do that for a minute and I would come back totally refreshed. So being overwhelmed was now being underwhelmed in a, in a peaceful place for me. The other one was like, I taught myself to drop my jaw and inch. You can close your mouth and still drop your jaw. And it takes all the stress out of your face. Yeah. I love that. When I read that, um, in your book, I started actually practicing that. And that's one thing I like about your books or your chapters. Aren't very long at all. They're more reference guides and, and, you know, in preparing for our conversation, I'd gotten away from this. And I re-read that I'm like, God, it's so true, man, because if you clench your draw, no, not only do, does the, does the other party see your attention, but it also creates the tension inside also. But if you just it's, it's just that little, you know, like a, like a pressure cooker, you know, on top they had that little bitty valve. And if you, if you, if you pull the pressure cooker top right off, everybody's going to get burned. Whoever's standing around. But if you, if you treat your scenario, like what you're saying is where you drop your jaw, it's that tiny release valve that's right on top of that pressure cooker and you let it open, just so. Let some of that pressure out, not only internally, but also it let some of the pressure out of the room itself and then opens up more of a negotiation. And that's when you start to notice everything in the room, I used to call it, feeling the room. I never really understood what I was saying. Um, but I would call it, feeling the room because I I'd done all my homework. And I'm talking about like a, you know, like a deck, a gigantic deck in my mind, you can't hold it there for very long, by the way, but you can hold it there for 24, 48 hours. And then it starts to, you know, it starts to. Other things come into your mind. Right. But for a short period of time, you can hold a massive amount of information. And, um, so what I would do in those meetings, especially when you go into Walmart, like there's no pictures on the walls. They've only got one little window like this in the meeting with people, you only got five minutes left. Right. And the guys at the Hudson's bay company, they were street fighters. I can remember the vice-president coming up the hallway one day before one of our big negotiations with the Louisville Slugger. And he goes does two, three times. And he just, just barely audible. He says, so what do you got for us today? Holy shit. Oh man. You know, that's going to be a pile of hurt. You know, and you're in there, you're in their boardroom. Yeah. You can't get out. It's like Robert DeNiro. And what was that Goodfellas? He walks around with a bat, you know, when they're all sitting at the table, Jesus, the back of the head with a bat, nobody knows who's going to get hit. Yeah. You know, and I've been in meetings like that where actually the customer starts to beat up on their own people because they've said one word too many explosives. Yeah. And everybody's in shock. I remember one day it happened. We were, we had a big problem. We had to resolve and I had my boss with me and it looked like the pro the problem was resolved. And, but there were so angry. There was so much anger in the room because you know, it hadn't worked out exactly the way they wanted it. And I got up because my son had an appointment. He had been in the hospital with gastritis. He's really. And a little boy, you know, whether it's with a bleeding stomach is not a good thing. So I got up and the spice president looks off me. So those were the Frick. You think you're going yelled at me. And I looked down and I said, my, uh, my son has a, a, an appointment with his pediatrician, gastritis, bleeding stomach. I said, I think things are under control here. Hmm. I said, we've covered all major issues. I think you'll be fine. I know you understand. And I didn't even pay any attention to who got up and left the next day. I two voicemails from the other two people in the room. They said, pat, that's one of the bravest things we've ever seen you do in front of a vice president of our company. You're one of us now. That's how you get respect though. You know, sometimes it's being able to just turn your back on it saying, look, you know, whatever it is, man, I'm gonna deal with it. And you know, many times. I've had some of the meanest nastiest gnarly as customers. And you know, when you act intimidated, then they're going to chew that up. But if they're just like, like you could give two shits, like, you know, this is the way it's going to be. And if you don't like it pack sand, they actually come back at you and be like, you know what, dude, you know, you think of the guys that, you know, um, you know, the professional fighters, professional athletes, you know, um, if we think about our friend tiger woods, did he ever look intimidated? I've never seen a guy with such peace and intensity in his eyes. You know, you compare him to Phil Mickelson, Mickelson. Um, he walked. Like he was jovial, but you can never know what was going on in his stomach. Right. With woods. You knew, man. He owned it. Yeah. Even when he was busted up, when he, uh, beat a Rocco mediate with a torn ACL and he walked an extra 18 holes, phenomenal. He made a two breaker for an Eagle that, uh, uh, one of the other Swedish players was up there just before him and said he willed that ball into the hole because he said, I played the same pot, two balls out to the right. And he said, I couldn't get it in the hole. And he did. So it's, it's that inner peace, you know, one of the worst things can happen to you is you end up in a situation where you have to fight somebody, physically look into their eyes. If they've got peace in their eyes, it's the scariest thing in the, in the, in the. Yeah, no doubt. All right. Let's uh, what about, uh, pedaling backwards? I want to talk about that one pedal backwards mentally. I love this analogy. So this is one way just to bring us back on, on track here, ways that you can actually reduce stress is you write that pedal backwards mentally. What's that about? Well, when I was a kid, um, you know, you can still do it today, but we know with the mountain bikes, but we used to have these, um, uh, checked out, uh, smaller bikes, you know, and they're usually just three speeds, but when we got the 10 speed bikes, that's what, what was cool. And so you could, you could, what you do is you'd get on a, on a hill where you were, you know, you were, if, if you're powered harder, you'd almost have to be a professional rider to stay on the bike. Right. Uh, we had an escarpment in Hamilton, so you'd ride up and down the scarp and kill yourself going up. And when he came down, Just as a refresher because it was so much wind blowing by you pedal backwards. So I remembered that. And when I go in a really, really, really hard tough meetings, I've just closed my eyes. And I'd say, when am I face pedaling backwards? And so while everybody else was freaking out in the room, all of the ugly issues would pass by me. I would go through a mini meditation, just close my eyes and I would not. And everybody was thinking that I was thinking about a creative solution for the problem. I wasn't, it was a mini meditation executives do that all the time. CEOs, you ever seen a CEO he's in a meeting and suddenly it goes quiet, he's nodding. And he goes, and he closes his eyes for a second. Happens all the time. That's when you know, you're dealing with somebody who's operating on another level, but the only way you operate on that other level is that you practice that. And that's why back to professional athletes, they practice the mental part of the game. You know, just think about as a sales person, we think in patterns. So the minute that you came online with me today, you made 50 decisions about me in two seconds. Now you and I know each other, but you still make 50 decisions. How does pat look today? Is he feeling, is he in his groove? You know, where's he at? So now then, you know, sort of think about the last 10% and that's the moving parts. What if you could control the moving parts? And this is what professional athletes try to do so that when they get in that moment where they believe they can win, they don't stall out. They prepared to win. That's what you talk about, you know, like, well, how did you deal with adversity? I prepared for adversity. When my dad died, I had to go work for a magazine. After I came back from Edmonton, it went bankrupt. So I'm living in again. I borrowed everybody. I had like about $6,000 commission. I owed everybody in Hamilton steel. Money. You don't want old people, money and steel town. Where did I work? The only place I get a job at international harvester where my dad died. One station away from where he dropped dead. Yeah. You got to figure it out, you know, and that's why, you know, I've had grown men call me before Patrick and you're just like, I don't know what to do. I said, FIO, you know, it's, you know, my formula is, you know, uh, FIU to FIO to a, to F M O. Okay. So you got to fuck it up to figure it out to fucking move on and you know, that's what you that's, and that's the thing like their, their adversity can slap you and you can just be like, oh my God, I don't know what to do. Are, you can just grab it and pocket it, like what you do and you say new game, new strategy, man, practice being the pig, going through the Python, you know, you're coming up. The other end. You just don't know what you're going to smell or look like a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, think about people who, um, um, so I, I had to have just in a little tiny little bit of back surgery, but I was loaded up mostly on oxies and Gabapentin, Gabapentin being probably the most addictive drug in the world that I can think of. And so I had to come off, but I had to come off with an elevated blood pressure because what happens when you're in a lot of pain, your blood pressure becomes uncontrollable. So you have to control your blood pressure while you're taking away. The thing that is helping you control it, embrace it. You got to embrace it. I went out and I walked, I walked 800 miles. Wow. Yeah. Ripped up, busted up, tore it up. I even developed non 24, um, which happens with blind people because I was taking so many meds that, um, I'd wake up at three o'clock in the morning, up here in Northern Canada. It's like, you know, it's like, you know, when it's, when the moon is bright, there's, there's no lights up here. So you, you know, if your windows are open and even if you've got the blinds down, it can feel like it's daylight. So I didn't get all dressed up and I walk out well, I'm in the middle of nowhere. Like we got, we got, um, mountain lions here. We've got black bear. We got elk. We got moose. We, everything wants to kill you. We got it here in north America. And I walk and I go for a two, two mile walk at three o'clock in the morning with no weapon. Hmm. Total peace. Nope. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I figured if I figured, if you want to take me on in this state, I'm going to start ripping some hair off. Yeah. They got to know you were here at least, right? Yeah. You know, it's, it's really weird if, uh, animals instinctively know when you're not afraid. Yeah. They know because they're afraid and if you're not afraid and they're not afraid unless the, the animals mental and this can happen, people get mental. Why, why wouldn't animals? Yeah. But you know, you've seen guys, I was watching a video about, uh, uh, an elephant, uh, that was kept in captivity for 30 years. And they had no way to control the elephant. They had them chained and it was a gigantic Asian elephant. So anyway, this guy came and he said we had to get him to. Area. So we could rehabilitate the elephant. So anyway, he built a swimming pool for him and he got them in the swimming pool and he started seeing him Frank Sinatra songs. And eventually the elephant became his friend. And then he trusted him enough to build a big cage so that they could put the Alvin in and out while he was singing Frank Sinatra songs. So they could eventually get them on a plane and fly the elephant to his new home. Wow. That's cool. You know what? It's really strange. Uh, so during the pandemic, I'm going to riff off here for a minute, but the two things that kept my mind together through all this was, I asked myself every time somebody came to me and they say, pat, you realize what's going on. Yada, yada, yada, yada, and all the conspiracy theorists and all the rest of this stuff. And people going broke my whole industry. Just about when blank. Yeah. Like we get paid to pure in front of people. I gave my time away. I would call up single moms and moms and children I'd say, hi, this is pat tinny. It's crazy. Pat day. Um, I got a half an hour. I don't care about sales. What are the two biggest problems you got right now? And let's solve them. I don't care where they are. Tell me what they are. Let's listen. And they go, wow. I go, come on. I got a half an hour. I'm going to give it to you. I normally bill at 500 bucks an hour, you know, um, inner peace. If you've got that, you are on dateable. I don't care. I don't care. You are unbeatable. You ever wonder how those guys walk across those hot coals? Hmm. Yeah. I've always wondered that. Yeah, it's here. You train your mind. And it's something that's, you know, it's, it's, it's accessible to us all, you know, but it's something that you do have to, it's not gonna come to you. You gotta, you gotta figure it out. You gotta go through a little bit of pain, a lot of discomfort. Um, but you will like, like you said, it's a, it's a pig passing through the Python. You'll, you'll come out on the other side and you'll be better for it also. So let's talk about, um, you know, being in a weak position and there are times just because you are in a weak position, doesn't mean that you have to act weak chapter 53 and perpetual hunger is probably my most favorite, uh, chapter that, that you write about. So let's talk about in different ways to Ukraine, we're watching it, we're watching it glory to Ukraine. We're watching it. The Russian army is supposed to be the best army in the world. They're getting their asses handed to them by a bunch of guys who trained like. You know, they didn't have an army. Um, up until about 10 years ago, Canada was one of the first to send, uh, our army over to the Ukraine because we have the second largest Ukrainian population outside of Ukraine. Oh, wow. Our deputy prime ministers Ukrainian. My, one of my bodyguards when I was a kid was Ukrainian. Wow. Yeah. You know, and these people they're, um, they've gone through a horrible time. And, um, what a presence LLC has figured out is that he looked back in history and he said, all right. So who were probably the two greatest strategists of all time in times of war? Well, if he was really smart, he probably read the art of war by sun Tzu written about 5, 6, 7, 8, 900 years ago. A first book on strategy, every general, uh, in the United States army is read that book. Second book he probably read was, or he went back and he revisited everything that Winston Churchill. And so what he was doing was he was reaching out to the United States and Canada and his EU partners. And he was saying, we're weak, we're vulnerable. And we can see it. Crimea got stolen, nobody did anything. So what we did was we, we, we enabled a bully and then, you know, everybody looked disoriented. Well, all of a sudden, you've got this small band of men who said, we got to fight for our country. We got to fight. So wives were going to the front lines. They were practicing with wooden rifles that's they were practicing with wow. And he's taught the world into sending. Uh, he just asked for yesterday, he wants a thousand javelins and a thousand, uh, anti-aircraft missiles a day now. And they just pushed the rush. Out of the Northwest, uh, um, Northeast corner of Kiev under bombardment. So what they're doing is they're admitting they're weak. They're asking for help. They're being super creative. You had all these, uh, all these intellectuals and teachers and all the rest of it. Guess what they're making, they're either making flak jackets or Molotov cocktails. The Ukrainian people are marching while the Russians are shooting over their heads, total defiance. And you know what that is, this is my house. Same thing. We will fight you in the Hills. We will fight you in the streets. We will fight you on the shores. And he used that same speech. That's what he delivered to the, um, uh, to the British, the UK parliament got a standing ovation, same thing in Canada, same thing in the United States where he talked about 900. You know, he talked about, uh, Pearl Harbor. He said, how did you feel with that dark smoke coming up above you? Because that's how we feel. And so what he's doing is he's evoking so much creativity that everybody around and by the way, fighting above his belt. Wait, he's a little guy. Yeah. So when you prove to people that you will do things that other people would not dream of, guess what you got, you got a small dog staring at a big, big bowl and he's hungry and you're in his house. Yeah. Um, I just got finished reading Jay Glazer's book. Um, and Jay Glazer is, um, he's a, uh, one of the guys on Fox, uh, NFL, um, The, the NFL show and you know, one thing that he teaches, he's also got an MMA academy as well. And one thing that he teaches his guys is, is, is neutral phase and neutral phase is, is no matter how much pain you're in, no matter how fatigued you are, no matter what kind of weak position you're actually in. Don't let the other side, uh, you know, don't tip your hand to the other side because there's a lot of times, and he makes reference to it in his book about Chuck Ladelle. Um, and Chuck Ladelle really shouldn't have fought whatever, whoever was that it was fighting. I forgot the name of the guy, but he was really should have called the fight before they even fall because he was coming off a staph infection. Chuck Ladell was like, no, let's go. And so Chuck Ladell, it, it, the, the, the final rounds, he was so beat. So tired had nothing left in the tank yet what he did is Patrick. He stood in the corner. Uh, George Foreman did in between rounds. You stood in the corner and he winked at the other guy, and it was that wink. And the, the fact that he didn't sit down and he ended up knocking out the guy, the other guy had the advantage. He didn't know he had the advantage because of what his actions were. And it wasn't until years later that the guy it crushed him and the guy said, I had no idea. Chuck Ladell was that beat. It's all neutral phase. So this is, and I guess my point to it is this is where man, you've got to, you've got to w when you're in your most stressful situation, when you feel like you're in a weak position, you don't have to act weak. You have, you, can, you still got creativity, narrative own the narrative, own it. Take control of the narrative. Talk a little bit about that. You know, I, I gotta tell you, I've been in some situations at times, uh, with health problems and with family. And there's no way out there is no win, but it doesn't mean that you can't attempt to win. All right. When everybody thinks you're your weakest, that's when they will try and take advantage. Yeah. But when you look strong, when you're weak, that's when they look at you and they go, wow, how the hell does he, or she do that? Think about how many cancer patients you've seen with stage four near the end. Yeah. What do they, what do their faces look like? Their faces look like it's a good day to die. There are peace. There's a few that are released. But there's something really weird. So I've nearly passed away a number of times, um, a lot. And I was at that like, yeah. Anyway. Yeah. I don't know. It's true. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I had my blood pressure to go to 2 27, over 180. Wow. In the hospital. And, um, anyway, uh, I was sitting at, um, over cocktails and I'm sitting with a buddy of mine who had had cancer twice. And he's a little bit older than me and my friend and my friend looks over at the two of us. And he said, you guys are both, almost died a couple of times. What does that feel like in those moments? And I looked over at my friend, David. I said, well, I'll give you my 2 cents. I said, it doesn't feel like anything. What it feels like is I'm here now. And I may not be here a minute from now. And that's all it is. You just leave. Just leave. None of us are getting out of here alive. Right. But it's not until you get to that elevated state of I'm almost gone. Um, almost gone that you realize how much inner strength you have that comes from your boss. So profound though, deep inside the base of your body. That's where your guts hang up, man. And that's where the owning the narrative is, is so important, you know, on something, you know, as, as, as tough as that is, that seems like it's just not going to end well, uh, yet you may not be in control of a lot of things, but you can be in control of the narrative and what you say to yourself and what you say to the world, uh, makes all the difference in. How much longer going another round. It has everything to do with the results too. So, and most, you know, a lot of us won't be in these kinds of positions, but whatever position that you find yourself in, whether you feel emotionally, physically, financially, or anything else that ends in L Y at a disposition on the narrative, don't get slapped around by it. Don't let it continue to beat you up, like own the narrative. It doesn't, it doesn't look good that ugliness into rocket fuel a hundred percent man, turn it into rocket fuel. Anthony I, Anna Reno. I was, I did my first podcast with him when I launched perpetual hunger. And, you know, he got talking about adversity and he said, my greatest fear is he said, my children don't have enough adversity in their lives. And he says that lack of adversity is actually good. And I can't imagine having accomplished everything that I've done. I mean, when I went to write unlocking, yes, I never plan write any books. I mean, I could barely sign a check. I'm not illiterate guy, but you know, I am, I'm a person who likes to take very complicated concepts and break them down into every man's language. Yeah. And then turn that information into a tool that propels people to live their sales dreams. That's the mission. And you know what my target market is by country. I can tell you, it's not the United States. It's India. Wow. Yeah. 1.2 billion people and they're all entrepreneurs. Now, if you make it big in the United States, you're going to, I don't care how badly you try not to. You're going to make a big bag of money. You make it big in India. I I'm even selling books in China. Now I have a following in Italy. I just found out about it. Hey, but three Pasquali we just reading a book? Oh my God. I'm going to write you a review. Go up on good reads. And you're going to see that there's a gentleman up there. He couldn't get it up on Amazon. He said, Patty, since I make such a mistake, he says, but I'm going to put up on the reef for you. That's all good. That book was, yeah. Yeah. That's great. It's cool, man. You know, when you can change the trajectory of thought, and this is what you're so good at, this is what you're so good at. When I called you up out of the blue. I don't know how many years ago it was now because, uh, you know, Alzheimer's is a great thing. You're the last guy in the world. 18 man, when you call me, was it 2018? You know what? I, I listen to you the first time I heard you and I could, I could feel this. I don't know what it is, man. It was whatever was coming out of the bottom of you was just raw. It was in the moment. And what you do is you, you riff you juxtaposition situations, language words, you use words as a cadence use words. It's almost, it's almost like you're wrapping sales and it, and to me, well, that's why I call it sales jamming. I actually, when I started listening to you, I started saying that's like sales German because I play guitar. I'm playing, I've been a musician my whole life. And you know, you get musicians together and all of a sudden they start to do all kinds of crazy things. And that's when the collaboration happens, you know? Um, I, I, you know, I fed off of you because I called up and I said, you've got, you've got the thing. You know what the thing. You're looking back at me. I have no idea who you are by the way, sir, for context, let me, let me tell you, let me, let me set the stage a little bit. So, you know, I'm at the, I'm at one of the lowest moments in my life. Um, and I just start sharing these videos on LinkedIn. Like I said, this is 2018. My caller ID says Canada. I'm like, I don't who in the hell is in Canada. I don't know if it's a bill collector or what. And so, you know, I pick up the phone and it's PA I don't even know how in the hell you found my number to this day. He still has not told me. He's like the Liam Neeson of, ah, you know what I did. I searched your dealership. Uh, and then I don't know whether I called the dealership and I got your number. I think that's probably how I did it. And, um, you know, when I want to talk to someone. You just can't stop me. Uh, um, Leon Cooperman, who's a billionaire in the United States. He owns the omega fund. Uh, he was the CEO of strategy for, um, um, Goldman Sachs. He was on, um, uh, fast money squawk it's CNBC, where they talk about trading stocks. I'm a swing trader in the stock market also. And, um, he did a defense of ADT. Um, some guy wanted to go bill Ackerman wanted to go in and rip it up. And a lot of people are gonna lose their jobs. He got on and he says, listen to me. Okay, it's a good company. I sat on their board of directors, this and boat. This is what they do. This is their, this is how they think about creativity. This is how they think about futures. And he went on for 20 minutes and all these wall street traders are just going like, whoa. So anyway, I looked him up, I didn't know who he was at the time. And I found his number. He had offices in New Jersey and my, um, Uh, Jupiter in Florida and I called the Jupiter offers and I said, can I speak to Mr. Cooperman's, uh, personal assistant? They said, sure. I said, Mr. Coopman just delivered and unimpeachable dissertation in defense of ADT. I've never seen anything like it in my life. I've never seen anything like that happen on television. And I said, I just please tell him how brilliant that was, because I've never seen a performance like that in my life guys, almost eight years old, she said, well, Mr. Kuiken would be very interested in knowing that you appreciate him. What's your name? What's your number? I said, well, I'm calling from Canada. I said, you know, you probably don't my name's Patrick, Kenny, here's my number 20 minutes later. Hi, this is Leon Cooperman. How can I help you today? And am I ever happy that you appreciate the work that I did today on Scott Walton or show on CNBC? I'm glad you liked that. I don't know how I can help you, but I just want you to know. I appreciate that. You appreciate. I made a cold call on a billionaire. Yeah. You know what it says, you can call anybody and if you're polite enough and you're appreciative and you're civil, you show low self-interest, you don't challenge people. You don't tell them what, you know, I keep telling people, quit, fricking criticizing other people, stop it. It's too hard to create your creator. You're a creator. What I did was I called up and I said, I don't have any advice for you. All I can say is whatever you're doing, don't stop doing it. Yeah. That's a share. I didn't critique your work. All I knew was it was fantastic. And it made all the difference in the world and guys, that's what you have to realize too. Like you never know when your comments are you taking that extra step? Um, because truthfully had pat not called, I probably would have given up. Um, I just, you know, because sometimes it just, you feel like that you're just swinging in the dark and it took that one spark and this was for 2018, four years ago. And he said, Hey, you got this thing, you got this it factor. And he said, I don't, I don't just call random people up and tell them this, you have this it factor. Keep doing it, keep going. And you know, it's, it's a special thanks to you, man. You got a special place in my heart for that because you were the thing that just kept pushing me to go on, you know what? It's really strange. I don't believe in causality, which is in philosophical terms. That means that the thing that just happened before causes the thing afterwards. And then I also don't believe in freedom of the will. In other words, we have total control of our mind, a hundred percent of the time it's it's to me, it just doesn't make any sense. I have a greater belief it's destiny. So, um, 50 years ago, when I was going through all my hard stuff longer than that, 55 years ago, I was destined to speak to you 50 years later. Wow. Destined. No, not just by chance. Destined. Yeah. You were always supposed to be in my life and that's the way it is. I believe that I believe that. And I believe that things that we go through 50% are for you and 50% are for someone else. And so 50% are for you. And that you can learn from it. And then it's also to be able to, um, share that because you just like 50 years, it took for us to meet, but something's going to cross your path in life. And because of what you've gone through, this is you'll be that, that, that spark of energy for someone to say, look, I've been in your situation, I've been where you're at. And guess what? I made it, you will to keep going, keep rocking harder than you can give. Oh, give harder. I grew up as the Go-Giver and didn't know what it was. My mom was broke all the time. Um, my sister and I supported her until she got across the finish line. And you know, so, um, I would always try to figure out magical ways of giving her money out. I would take her on vacation with me. And I remember when my stepdad died, I flew her up to Calgary. She'd never been on a plane before. Uh, she had, you know, she had issues around, you know, she'd only lived in one little place, her whole life, so she was afraid of leaving. She never been on plane. And, um, so she came out west and, uh, here's the funny story. So I took her to see Cheech and Chong was the first movie I attended with my mother up in smoke and smoke. And then I took her for a ride between, um, uh, lake Louise and Jasper. And so we're halfway. So that's about a three hour drive between those two places in the mountains. Right? So halfway up, it's in July and it starts snowing on my Cordova. And I got my mum with me and I've taken a week off. And so the snow lifted and all of a sudden we were staring at an ocean of white and I looked at my mother and I went, wow. I said, okay, we're going to get out of the car. I want you to look down. I want you to walk forward. Don't touch anything. Let it touch. Guess what? We walked into a herd of mountain goats going from, yes, they're going from their winter passage it down into the Southern passage. And we had about 50 of them with all their little kids and they got these horns and you know, these animals are like, but we, we show great respect, great reverence. We looked down, we had our hands beside us. I took one picture and my mother looked at me and she said, isn't that lovely, dear? Like, I'd organize that probably with you being her child and nothing surprised her anymore. Right. I was so excited, but I couldn't act excited. I had to sort of say, ah, like just get out of the car. Yeah. Just because when you're, you're like in Nowheresville out there, man. Yeah. Like you could get. I can remember we were driving along and there was a family look. They looked like they were from east Asia and they were in a metal below us. Uh, we were driving one way and there was a bear out in the middle of this meadow and they were letting their children run around this wild bear. I got a screen, the top of my lungs, get your kids back in the car. I was at the right place at the right time. Yeah, buddy. Well, there's wine in this thing up, man. I could, I could jam out with you all day long, but I do want to as promised, um, I do want to talk quickly about how you can gratify your, or keep your sales game, uh, green. I think that's, I think that's super important. I think as we invest some time as the cynicism and rejection builds up, it's the only profession in the world, Patrick, where we go to, we go to work to purposefully fail, but that's the only way that you actually succeed. So in a, in the bonus round, dude, let me tell you something. We cover three books today. So three books. So be sure and grab these books because they go into detail, but in the bonus round, , you speak about greenifying your sales game. I just want to roll them out real quick and then let you let you, uh, pull out a few of them. Uh, that you think are most relevant. So a couple of ways that you can green invite by your sales game is, is, is, uh, uh, company and product launches, competition, legislative changes, innovation, upcycling, and efficiencies in, uh, in price reduction. So pull out a few of those and, um, and right. They're all relevant right now. So we're going through the most massive state of inflation since 1980, when interest rates were at 20%. I know because I bought a house when I was 26 years old, uh, interest rates. Must've been about 18%. And in those days I was used to passing through 15% rate increases to my customers. How much has the price of a used car gone up in the last year? Oh my God. 30, 30%, 35%. Something like that, man. Okay. So what are you selling when you, when you, when a customer comes in and you say, yeah, last year that. You know that, uh, that Honda, you know, uh, CRX or CSX CRX, uh, with a hundred K on it, I probably could have sold it to you for, oh, I dunno. Maybe $10,000, but now it's 13. I'm sorry. That's the price. You're in a seller's market right now. We're all in a sellers market for this brief period of time. So for the last, I don't know, 20 years it's been a buyer's market now we're into a blended market. So we got this, you know, right now in the, in the, in the, in the area of sales, you can't get enough vehicles. Yeah. You just can't get them. I know up here we got car lots that are half empty because they can't get new product. So we've got supply chain problems. So, so what I'm saying about all of this is be cognitive of what kind of a market you're in. Think about the future. You know, when I talked about, uh, green fire and upcycling and all the rest of it, just think about what we're doing right now with the pandemic. We could have never produced the vaccine that quickly, if we didn't have databases, but the people that were producing the databases, that technology we're writing code 30 years ago to prepare us for an event that we couldn't see coming, we could always, we always knew there was going to be a pandemic because we had SARS. We had mirrors, we had you name it. We had it. Cause I lived through, like, I worked in the second largest shopping center in Canada. When we had SARS, we would walk through the buildings with our, with our jackets pulled up. So you'd open up doors with your, with your suit jacket. You wouldn't touch it with your hands and your, you know, and I had 800,000 people going through the mall a day in the fall. Think about it. Wow. So it's adaptation and it's also about, you know, government legislation. So there's going to be a lot of changes right now. Look at all the pot stocks, they've all dropped in value because everybody thought because Canada legalized pot, we were crazy up here. Um, uh, that the United States was automatically going to do it. And all the states, we're all going to fall in line. Well, there's, there's people that are stuck. You know, you think about how speaker Bainer he's, uh, one of the largest investors in a cannabis company in the United States, you know, selling CBDs by the way, which help a lot of people with pain, but also selling THC, which is, uh, taken from a hemp plant, not a pot plant and turn into a, uh, um, you know, a healing. So, um, think about databases. Databases are activating our possibilities. People are afraid of artificial intelligence, and they're saying, oh, we're going to wipe out all kinds of sales jobs. You know what I say? Um, so I've written a masterclass, it's that beautiful panoramic view of sales, prospecting, consultative selling and sales negotiation. It took me 14 years to come up with that perfect blend. I'm going to next go. And I'm going to run a master class on negotiation, and then finally I've already got one, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to Jack that thing. And finally, my, um, my catalog of, uh, sales prospecting, uh, topics is around a hundred and twenty, a hundred thirty, a hundred forty deep without social media. Wow. So I'm going to teach people how to sell at the CFO CEO level. This is what I'm doing with the masterclass. That's the future that's upcycling. That's thinking ahead. That's knowing that the bigger the money becomes. Why do you seriously think that you can close deals that large using artificial intelligence where everything, you know, can go wrong? No. What people want these days is they want deals that have been fully, de-risk take the risk out of the deal when you're selling cars that you know, that are so good. Use you say to the person you say, if you walk out of here and you don't buy that car, you're actually going to be making a mistake because a year ago that car was worth 30% less. And it's a used car. Think about what I knew a year ago and what I know now. Now you can look, you can look me in the eyes and you can say, all right, marsh, uh, you know, things are a little tough right now. I have to make a hard decision in a hard market. What's the best. Decision I can make for my family creating the greatest amount of value in an uncertain marketplace where I know I have a vehicle that will work for me for at least three years. How do you help me solve that problem? And by the way, I'm in a bit of a tough spot right now. I need a little bit of help. Is there anything you can think about to help me with, let me go for a test drive, I'll be right back and whatever you come up with, I'm going to sit and listen too hard because I trust you because you've earned that trust because you listened guys, you just got a master class, um, from one of the most generous people that you will ever meet. Um, and I urge you to. Not only connect to Patrick Tinney on LinkedIn, but also grab a copy of his, uh, books. Um, phenomenal books. Like I said, I have all three of them unlocking yes. Perpetual hunger and the bonus round as well. So anything you want to, uh, some parting words. And what do you have coming up that we can be a part of and help, uh, help gain more knowledge from you, man? First of all, we have people in Ukraine that are being bombed out of their homes. They're being bombed to oblivion, go to the red cross and donate I'm secondary donate, give them something, give them some hope. Gloria Ukraine. You want to get ahold of me, Patrick tinny sales author. Just drop it into any search engine iPad. By the way, go to Amazon, just go Patrick, tinny into Amazon, whatever country you're in and all my books pop up. They're there. I, I'm almost up to a hundred five-star reviews worldwide, by the way I'm selling in India. I got to follow you in India. I love it. I got some friends over there and we chit chat and, um, um, they're wonderful people. Um, and you're one of three authors that did what? Well, there's only three solo authors. So there's been a lot of people get together because they can't really finish the picture. Right. You always talk about the picture and finishing the picture. You speak like an artist. I, I love your word pictures. The hardest book to write a sales negotiation. I can actually tell when a guy's authored a book on, on negotiation, but he's never done the deals. I can't tell you who it is. Really. Yeah. I can tell when people have had other people write their books because it isn't their natural voice. You see when you read my books. And I think I mentioned to you earlier, I actually try to take the most complicated ideas in the world and make them simple. I purposefully write my books at about a grade 10, 11, 12 level, knowing that that my reader may not have English as their first language. So I'm anticipating that my reader will be a second language sales professional. I did it on purpose. And the other thing I did was what I, what I wanted to do was rather than using words that we don't use in everyday language, I wanted to use all the words we use in everyday language without using words that weren't so simplistic, that once you finish reading one of my lessons that you can't go right over to your friend, partner colleague, or the guy in your dealership who needs the most amount of help and just said, all right. So I just read this lesson by tinny, this, this madman up in Canada, and this is what he says to do, but he said, you got to have, you've got to believe. That no is just a word. It's an iteration stock with this cold calling crap. What I want you to do is I want you to smile every time a customer walks in. I don't care if you feel like you've just swallowed, um, uh, corn flakes covered in broken glass. Man, I want you to smile because when that customer walks in and they see enthusiasm, it rips off of you. Now don'ts don't sound like you've got commissioned breath sound like you've got eyecare breath. I'm a Go-Giver that's great stuff, Patrick. This has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking time out to be with the sales live nation. And thank you very much for being a, an important part of my life and a very dear friend. Well, you know what, man, I gotta tell ya, my life would be incomplete if I hadn't had this time. Awesome. You had me. Hello? Thanks, man. I love it. Uh, remember this guys, no matter what the greatest sale that you will ever make is the sale you own you because you're more than enough. Stay amazing. Stay in the sales life. Thanks Patrick. Take care.